This touches on the attention economy which EK has discussed before

A lot of things are on track to get more expensive. 
The U.S. Treasury market is the bedrock of the global economy. When yields on those Treasuries go up, mortgages, car loans and credit cards get more expensive, and it can hit the stock market, too. And yields have been going up – to levels we haven’t seen consistently since before the Great Recession – inspiring some erratic and futile efforts from the Trump administration to push them back down. 
So why are yields creeping higher? What is the administration trying to do about it? And if this continues, what’s in store for the economy?
Robin Wigglesworth is the editor of the Financial Times blog Alphaville, a host of the podcast “The Story of Money” and the author of the forthcoming book “A Fabulous Debt: The Epic Story of How Bonds Built the Modern World.” 
This conversation was recorded on August 24, 2026.
Mentioned:
“An Economic D-Day Is Coming for Iran” by Scott Bessent
Book Recommendations:
Barbarians at the Gate by Bryan Burrough and John Helyar
The Prize by Daniel Yergin
Lords of Finance by Liaquat Ahamed

YouTube link

A good overview in addition to Ezra’s show today

Hiya, I am a long time listener trying to chase down two tidbits/quotes that are frequently mentioned on the show, and for the life of me I can't find them (or remember specific episodes). I found them persuasive and useful and would like to be able to cite them a bit more specifically than 'One time I heard Ezra Klein say...' (which is a sentence I already utter quite enough as is). If anyone can point me towards their source I would be very grateful.

1. A quote that I've heard deployed I want to say at least three times in the context of an inclusive politics, something like "Politics will never work until you treat your fellow citizens as full people, not objects of your charity or puppets in your morality plays". I'm way off on the specifics, but I hope that's enough to get the gist.

2. A poll that tested impressions of the Democrat and Republican party brands and found Republicans percieved as angry/crazy/aggressive and Democrats as preachy/condescending/controlling or similar adjectives. Again I think it comes up with some frequency but can't remember where.

Thanks and all the best,

EH

In 2024, Americans spent an average of six full workdays a year filling out government forms, according to the government’s own estimates. That’s a total of 12 billion hours, or $430 billion of uncompensated labor a year.

It’s easy to read something like this and say: “Oh, well, government is inefficient. That’s the price we pay for nice things.” But no, it’s not. Social Security, Medicare and the Postal Service are incredibly complex programs that are easy to use. When government is hard to gain access to, it is often by design. Republicans want paying taxes to be a hellish hassle. Programs for the poor are often designed to humiliate, punish, control or scrutinize. How the government works is always a choice. When it works poorly, we should ask why — and we should demand better.  

Annie Lowrey is a staff writer at The Atlantic and the author of the new book “The Time Tax: How the Government Wastes Our Time — and How to Fix It.” She is also, I should note, my wife, so this is a book whose ideas I have been living with for years. They have quietly infused more than a few episodes of this show. So it’s a thrill to finally get to explore them directly. 

This episode contains strong language.

Mentioned:

The Time Tax by Annie Lowrey

Give People Money by Annie Lowrey

Why Americans Hate Welfare by Martin Gilens

Book Recommendations:

My Silent War by Kim Philby

To Hate Like This Is to Be Happy Forever by Will Blythe

Gender Trouble by Judith Butler

While the recent "China Shock" episode covered a lot of topics, I was repeatedly struck by the guest's discussion of various long-term plans and decisions made by the Chinese state that helped engineer the outcomes we're dealing with in 2026, for better or for worse.

Long-term industrial policy, trade policy, fiscal policy, science and technology policy, energy policy, etc. The CCP, the Chinese state, or some combination of the two (however separate or comingled they are) have made or have attempted to plan for and implement policy across all of these areas with significantly longer time horizons than American policymaking ever could.

And while I don't think even the staunchest supporters of the CCP would concede that the global market and global trade have not also played a hand in China's modernization and economic rise, the China we see today is also a result of very deliberate and considered policymaking. Some of it has worked; some has not. But listening to this episode, you get a sense that the Chinese government and Chinese leaders actually have the will, and the space, in which to formulate, implement, and course-correct policy in terms of decades rather than 1-2 year increments. I'm not indulging some ridiculous Kissinger-esque pronouncement about how "the Chinese civilization thinks is millennia" or similar nonsense. But we have to still acknowledge that China's leaders and policymakers do work on a longer time horizon than ours do.

When I look at the U.S. in the mid-2020s, I see a country both out of coherent ideas and lacking the capacity to plan and implement long-term structural changes even if the ideas were present and fully baked. Obviously, we're not getting any of that from Trumpism, MAGA, or whatever Frankenstein's new GOP coalition emerges post-Trump. And while I think that the Democratic Party may be transforming into something with bold ideas that address certain domestic policymaking needs, you still don't hear potential frontrunners speaking seriously about what our long-term industrial policy wants to look like, which areas of science and technology will the state fund research in, what does our energy production and consumption look like in a solar and battery-centric world, what our trading relationships will look like not just post-Trump, but in the next decade or two. Instead, sadly even from candidates I like, you get "no tax on firefighters" and other slopulism.

And beyond the lack of ideas or serious thought (at least thought carried out in public discourse), I have absolutely no confidence that any of this (a) could be implemented at all, and (b) could be implemented in a way that's built to last. We will simply whipsaw from one Congress to the next, one White House to the next. No long-term planning, no consistency, no reliability in the face of allies and adversaries on the world stage. Our system appears constitutionally designed to frustrate and prevent long-term policymaking. There are simply too many chokepoints and elections too close together to implement anything lasting. And that's not even addressing federalism.

So what do we do about this problem within the structures of a liberal democracy and constitutional republic? How can we ever hope to make long-term national policy that survives successive election cycles and changes in politics? Are we doomed to reactive whipsawing for the foreseeable future as the U.S. falls further behind?

I know the NYT has been doing it for a while but it’s so frustrating to go back through the catalogue looking for an episode and then realizing you were first presented with the A/B title test that “lost”. Sometimes the alternative title is not even similar at all. I understand AB testing is useful but I wish it was kept to marketing and not media and literature where record keeping matters.

It’s not just the NYT, I’ve also noticed it with plain English. Am I alone here?

Show notes:”Brad Setser follows Chinese trade closer than just about anyone else on earth, and he thinks we’re in the early days of a China Shock 2.0.
The first China Shock was when China came to dominate low-end manufacturing in the 2000s, filling American shelves with cheap clothes, toys and electronics, while devastating American factory towns. This new China Shock could be even more destabilizing. China now dominates advanced manufacturing: electric vehicles, batteries, solar panels. It’s outcompeting nearly all high-end manufacturing around the world, and other countries are just starting to feel the pain. And China isn’t slowing down. It’s moving into software, too. Its frontier A.I. models are neck and neck with American ones.
China’s success poses a serious threat to the economies and domestic politics of countries around the world. So what should those countries do about it? 
Setser is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.He served in top trade and economic roles in the Biden and Obama administrations. And he is widely cited across the field as one of the top analysts of China’s economy and trade practices.
Book Recommendations:
The Party by Richard McGregor
The Volatility Machine by Michael Pettis
How to Win a Trade War by Soumaya Keynes and Chad Bown
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html””

A piece by Brian Potter of Construction Physics explaining the issues driving up the costs and risks of transit projects in America

His main argument is about control. U.S. transit agencies are nominally responsible for delivering projects, but much of their authority has been dispersed across regulators, courts, local governments, other agencies, utilities, and organized stakeholders like local populations and unions.
Compounding the issue is the hollowing out of technical expertise which makes transit agencies “bad customers” that cannot effectively design projects, supervise consultants and contractors, control costs, or resist unnecessary complexity.

As a result we have a system where many actors can demand changes, delays, and concessions, and no one has authority over cost or design. He outlines some prescriptions at the end.

Highly recommend for people who are interested Abundance/state capacity.

Ezra Klein on America's Best & Worst Politicians | Soul Boom with Ranin Wilson

It was about weed’s displacement of alcohol and nicotine as American’s preferred vice of choice. And in the opening of the program Derek mentioned something he and I both find fascinating. Weed, or THC to be exact, tends to be associated with solo usage or small groups of friends. Think perhaps a group of four to five people. This is in stark contrast to alcohol which is, on average, makes us friendlier, more gregarious and in a bubblier type of mood. It’s often associated with groups, parties, and other activities that involve strangers meeting each other. This was kind of a revelation to me. But it makes intuitive sense when you think about books like Bowling Alone.

Americans are hanging out in ever smaller groups of people and, based on things like Twitch and other live stream Youtubers, nowadays the people we hang out with may not even be in the same room, state or even country. Our parents or grandparents generations didn’t have that luxury. They had friends in their churches, clubs or other organizations and they sometimes got stuck with annoying, arrogant, or unpleasant members. Alcohol helps ease those tensions and dull the annoyance. It enabled your dad or grandpa to go to their local American Legion, Elks Lodge, Freemasons, Union meeting, business luncheons etc. and deal with, whatever, that jackass Ben once they’ve had a few slippery martinis.

As those organizations wither and atrophy though, it follows that the lubricant that helped them run sees an equally strong shrinkage effect. Weed is the new drug of choice because we’re alone more then ever now and socializing in ever smaller numbers.

This article is free, unlike the last slow boring article posted here.

Show notes :

My colleague Ross Douthat is leaving The Times after 17 years to become a correspondent on “60 Minutes.” Before he goes, I’m asking him a few questions.
Douthat has had a unique vantage point on the news media and politics over the last few decades. He’s typically held the role of explaining the right to more liberal audiences, starting as an undergrad, when he was a conservative columnist for The Harvard Crimson. Douthat has also lived through the seismic changes in the media from the both the inside and the outside: He’s made his career at legacy media institutions, but I first got to know him – and spar with him – as an early-2000s blogger (and I have the 20-year-old Bloggingheads.tv clips to prove it).
So what does Douthat make of the transformations he’s lived through? How did blogging change journalism? How did a Republican Party powered by evangelical Christians become a political party dominated by Catholics and pagans? What has he learned about persuasion from writing for liberal audiences? And with the resources of “60 Minutes” behind him, will he finally crack the U.F.O. story once and for all?
Mentioned:
Magnifica Humanitas by Pope Leo XIV
“Is It Time for a New Sexual Revolution?” with Louise Perry, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat
“Christopher Nolan’s Finest Trick” by Ezra Klein
Grand New Party by Ross Douthat and Reihan Salam
Book Recommendations:
Speak, Memory by Vladimir Nabokov
De Gaulle by Julian Jackson
Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson

Woke Two: Cancellation Boogaloo?!

What to make of the progressive rethink of Woke One.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders have conceded to the excesses of what we must all now call Woke One. But the concession, and that characterization of it, raise some obvious questions.

In this episode, Matt and Brian discuss:

What was Woke One;

Which aspects of it do progressive leaders now concede were “crazy”;

Why did it happen in the first place?

Then, how relevant is any of this for near-term politics so long as Donald Trump is in power wrecking the economy? The country keeps losing jobs (or putting up extremely week monthly jobs numbers). Congress is about to give Trump more power to impose tariffs. And there’s no clear offramp to the war in Iran. Are Republicans simply fucked? If so, why hasn’t the war been a bigger political disaster for Trump? Could Democratic leaders forge a factional truce around a midterm-campaign promise to end the war next year? Or is it going to be 2007 all over again?

https://www.politix.fm/p/woke-two-cancellation-boogaloo

Further reading:

Matt on how the high cost of living is tearing Republicans apart.

Brian takes a stab at a Woke One origin story.

Why are Democrats voting to give Trump more tariff power?

The doctor advising Republicans on how to lose weight says his miracle diet gives him orgasmic, wipe-free poops.

A good chunk of the recent "exit interview" of Ross Douthat centered the early blogging experience, and I thought it was worthwhile to go look up what that actually looked like.

This one is a somewhat representative sample of Ross's output from that era, which paints a more stark view or what the "war blogger" era was like.

I don't want to like, jump too hard on something that is now twenty five years old and a position that has been at least in part abandoned by its author, but at the same time, it's also a reminder of what that "golden age" of blogging actually entailed, and the quality of thought that was elevated afterward.

I could not recommend this 36-minute interview any more highly. If you want an explanation for what's going on that transcends right vs. left and Republicans vs. Democrats, here's a highly plausible one:

Fresh Air : NPR

At first he alluded to not pushing back hard enough was due to time constraints and then when claire called out it was over 2 hours he completely pivot to the typical “this isn’t a podcast where I tell ppl how to think”.

Nobody was asking to be told how to think, but a bit of honesty and challenging your guests especially if they have been a massive propagandist that help accelerate this past decade of far right fascist tendencies.

Look, Ezra is super successful and has a massive following and he clearly knows what he is doing to get attention and stay relevant.

Weather he wants to admit it consciously or not, but having guests like Rufo on is a sure fire way to garner attention and make that podcast episode talked about by a large swath of the population, case in point.

To have more episodes like that is to not make the guest super uncomfortable or ppl like rufo to not want to come in the future.

It’s disingenuous to say it was because of some higher, philosophical/academic free speech virtue of why he just let ruffo spread propaganda with very mild push back.

The first year of President Trump’s second term was a whirlwind of action: on immigration, on trade, on political retribution. But things seem to me to be slowing down quite a bit. Trump is incredibly unpopular, and he’s now bogged down in a war with Iran that he doesn’t seem capable of ending. He often appears more concerned with his many White House renovations than with whether the Republican Party can hold the House and the Senate in November. So what’s going on in this administration? Where is this all going?
It’s hard to think of a journalist more qualified to answer those questions than Maggie Haberman. As a White House correspondent for The New York Times, she’s published some of the hardest-hitting reporting about Trump’s second act as president and the group of loyalists that now surrounds him.
Haberman, alongside her New York Times colleague Jonathan Swan, just published an extraordinary chronicle of this extraordinary political moment, “Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump.” In this conversation, we discuss how decisions get made in this White House, what Trump has achieved so far and what’s really motivating him as we head toward the midterms.
This episode contains strong language.

Mentioned:
“Maggie Haberman on What an Unleashed Trump Might Do” by The Ezra Klein Show

“Trump Says He Decides What ‘America First’ Means” by Michael Scherer

Book Recommendations:
Takeover by Charlie Savage

Strangers by Belle Burden

I Regret Almost Everything by Keith McNally

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at
[ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com](mailto:ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com).
You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html

Discussion about housing on the argument podcast

Slowboring article about how Republicans are hurting their electoral chances by being so beholden to Trump

What’s big and ugly and has united Republicans and Democrats? A.I. data centers.

An overwhelming majority of Americans say they’d oppose a data center being built near where they live. In New York, Gov. Kathy Hochul just imposed a one-year moratorium on data center construction, and there are over 100 other local or statewide moratorium proposals across the country. A.I.’s explosive momentum over the last few years seems to have finally run into a force that could slow it down: the messy politics of getting things done in the real world.
So, is that a good thing, or a bad thing? And how much is the data center backlash about the actual construction of these buildings, and how much is it about A.I. itself?

Jasmine Sun has an excellent newsletter covering both the culture inside the A.I. companies and the anger that’s been building against them. And she just finished a reporting trip in the Midwest, where she interviewed people on all sides of the data center fight. So I wanted to talk to her about what she saw and what she thinks A.I. companies can learn from the growing movement against them.

Mentioned:

@jasmine’s Substack

Silicon Valley Is Bracing for a Permanent Underclass by Jasmine Sun

Sam Bankman-Fried on Arbitrage and Altruism (Ep. 145)

Is Your Social Life Missing Something? This Conversation Is for You. With Priya Parker, The Ezra Klein Show

Book Recommendations:

The Maniac by Benjamin Labatut

The Technology Trap by Carl Benedikt Frey

The Art of Gathering by Priya Parker